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Spinnakers are great and really transform downwind sailing. A Code 0 on a bowsprit might be easier to handle than a spinnaker ….
There have also been musings over the years about dealing with peceived ‘under canvassed’ rig. This makes the Atalanta great for family sailing and they really can handle a blow, but are slow in light airs.
What about a carbon fibre mast, perhaps 5′-6′ longer, with a ‘fat head’ main and dyneema rigging? Balance might require that bowsprit – some design work would be required. And thought would be needed to the harsher stresses imposed on the chainplates (dyneema doesn’t stretch so shock loadings increase). But she could be much faster in light airs and with well designed reefs and the lighter mast there might not be any impact on heavy weather performance.
…..
Hi Steve. Its great to hear you are having fun with Colchide – she looks to be enjoying her new home on the Hamble. And will do so even more with a new coat!
In any wooden boat painting situation you need to consider what a repaint might involve. It is not uncommon to find small defects as you strip the existing layers of paint. So it is good to find someone who is also able to make these good in an appropriate way before painting. Boatyards are an obvious call but could be expensive? An individual boatbuilder / finisher might be a cheaper solution. Unfortunately I can’t help with any names. Hopefully someone will help on here, or you could ask for recommendations through your club or even at places like The Elephant Boatyard who do a lot of wooden yacht work.
Nick
Well!
Maybe it wasn’t so much nonsense after all!
Turns out the Front Door concept is taking root – this one is a bit posh.
Courtesy of Jasper Jensen on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/360933207985507/permalink/1562702881141861/
Nick
I kept Helene on a drying mud mooring. Generally all okay. I originally left the keels right up. I twice had issues with the keels not dropping immediately when being lowered after being left, but both times the mud pushed into the boxes let go after a few seconds. The first time I hadn’t paused after a few turns and there was a bit of a clonk!
But loosening the clamps and leaving the keels dropped an inch or two sorted it and didn’t have any more problems. The slight working of the keels on settling and floating off helps the mud stay loose. Best loose off the keel bolts though to minimise unnecessary wear.
And Helene is still moored on a drying mooring with Jim, although not quite a ‘mud berth’..
So, there shouldn’t be any issues. If the mud is really soft and time between going sailing / dropping them is long, leaving them slightly down is a good idea.
It’s worth noting that over the years many Atalantas have had drying mud moorings.
The wise men are apparently all on tour. But they left me keeping the teapot charged, so whilst they are away the mouse is going to play….
Sounds like good progress is being made on Mary/
Lots of questions in your post (hope the WM don’t come back before I get to the end).Not sure if you have seen it but excellent advice on Davey’s website here. And they may be a good source of your fastenings.
Some opinions, rather than facts, follow.
Iron rots wood, zinc does not: not strictly true, but the bolt takes up more space as it rusts which can lead to wood damage which promotes more rust which damages more wood which …… The zinc prevents the rust which protects the wood. Stainless bolts are an option but need care to prevent the wood around them getting wet – with no no access to the air they can rust as fast as mild steel (A4 / 316 grade is better than A2 in wet areas.
These need replacing with galvanised or stainless screws, correct? Yes, I would go stainless, well bedded.
But the lower holes I believe the best solution is to line the holes with resin, basically fill them and drill them out again? If the holes are damaged to the point of allowing the new bolts to move around then filling and re-drilling is an option. Not just resin, but resin plus thickener (colloidal silica, micro-balloons, sawdust ….)
You could also increase bolt diameter and drill to that if you are having the fittings re-galvanised when you drill a larger hole.Goop. This is used to fill the air void and avoid decay? And prevent leaks! The bolt should be a tight sliding fit in the hole. I would bed the fitting and bolts in a good quality butyl rubber bedding sealant. These remain flexible forever. They are available in builders merchants quite cheaply but it is worth paying a bit more for quality stuff like this one. They are messy but clean up easily with white spirit at any time after fitting. Butyl rubber does not prevent the removal of fittings although some force is required. Certainly do use an adhesive sealant like any of the Sikaflexes or CT1 and definitely not anything with silicon. I would not be happy that any grease would provide a lasting seal.
Maybe paint the fittings separately. If you can re-galvanising is far and away the best option for fittings. It is charged by the kg and will have a minimum weight of 50kg or 100kg – way more than you need. But find a fabricator who often sends stuff for galvanising (e.g. trailer manufacturer?) and they might include your pieces. Simple painting of the fittings will not give the protection of galvanising, even with the so-called ‘cold galvanising’ paints. You could possibly get them blasted and epoxy-sprayed / powder coated by a paint shop?
Should I use a tar-paper or similar between the fitting and the hull? Not necessary if using the butyl rubber sealant.
Off to sweep the floor
NDoug
From your text it is one of the two pivot, rather than the four clamping, bolts which is the problem?
How old are the seals – they deteriorate with age. I could send you a single replacement that I have in the garage if you want? (Not a set). I don’t think grease / oakum would help but a new seal should.
You should be able to remove the nut and seal when afloat with only a small amount of water ingress. However if the bolt is out of place due to mating with the ‘stopper’ on the plates, it might leak more.
N
I have always thought that lubricant is only really any use wile the pump is dry, after changing. Once there is water flowing that is sufficient. Some kits come with silicon grease. I generally grease the shaft a small bit of ‘keenol’ (kept in the engine bay for the stern gland), but do nothing with the rubber.
One thing I was always told never to use with rubber was vaseline, as its softens the rubber over time, but on an impeller it probably won’t there for long?
NickRichard
Thanks for the anniversary reminder. A146 was already a very well travelled Atalanta before the ’76 OSTAR having done 1000s of miles in the Channel in the lead up to the 1975 Round Britain race under skipper Bill Perkes (see book page).
That 1976 OSTAR was notable for so many reasons. The top one being, of course, the entry of A146. But there were others:
- Highest number of entries (I think ever) at 125 started
- Multi-hulls coming of age
- Alain Colas in his 236′ Club Mediterranée
- The sad loss of Three Cheers and Mike McMullen, whose wife was electrocuted whilst preparing the boat
- Five depressions in quick succession yielding average wind speeds of 35knots for over a week
There are some very intersting articles on the inter web. The Royal Western Yacht Club have a page which includes the full list of yachts and their fate in the race. Rod and Bluff acquitted themselves well given the conditions, although he did not finish within the time limit. There is also an account of the race in the book ‘The Moonshine Logs’ (Moonshine was one of the boats in the race). Google Books allows you to read the OSTAR 76 chapter.
Rod was bitten by the ocean racing bug and went on crew on Flyer in the 1977 and 1981 Whitbread Round The World races.
And Richard, you may find this Yachting Monthly article interesting in terms of tracking Rod down – it appears that there was an attempt at a reunion of the Flyer crew in 2011.
Cheers
NickHi Doug
Something doesn’t look quite right but the (Knott) brakes on my trailer are quite different.
Hopefully someone will know more.
Alternatively can you whip another hub off for comparison?Cheers
NickDoug – Very sorry you can’t join us. That’s the trouble with Tech!
Hope to meet up with you at some point, in the real worlds at least!Doug re the Citroen. It does self level brilliantly but not when towing an Atalanta. A bit beyond its limits!
But, what a car! Nothing to touch it.
Just wish I hadn’t sold it…..So – Quick Roll Call so far
David Walworth – A146 Le Bateau Ivre
Jonathan Stearn – A183 Bluster
Mike Dixon – A1 Atalanta
Bernard Marshall – A86 Sassi
Doug Odgers – A90 Jenaka II
Nick Phillips – A124 HeleneJust seen Nick Rogers – you might want to head over to the Swallows and Amazons exhibition.
Alistair Rodger has just texted apologies – he will be late because he has made a detour via the tip!
Not entirely sure whether he is dropping off or picking up.AOA Keymaster = the Lord and Not Master or all things Forum on the website. Make sure you don’t cross him.
Richard James has just been seen near the foreshore but has disappeared into the bushes with a cardboard box and a specimen bottle.
Not sure what is happening but hopefully he will be able to join us later.
Have you all seen the ‘Esperance Project’ video. Quite a project. They have won all sorts of awards.
The video doesn’t really cover it but it has sustainability throughout the design. The ‘Brief overview of sustainable systems by Arup‘ link after the videos above includes some interesting information about that.
I wandered around Bowness this morning – all very quiet. I was expecting more people!
At the Royal Windermere Yacht Club I ogled the fleet of Flying Fifteens (Uffa designed in 1947), They look good in plastic but so much better in wood. The club Bosun let me virtualise him and we had a long discussion about the class, the club and the state of the Lake. He brought to my attention this appreciation of the Flying Fifteen made by the RYA.
He then took me for sail in his very nice wooden version – great, although I had to hold the camera steady for the whole trip which was a bit of a pain.
Low Wray is amazing – what a great site. Haven’t met Justin. Alexa showed us round the site and let us pick our pitch.
The National Trust have really entered into the whole ‘Virtual Windemere’ thing and have got tents pitched using sky-hooks:
I am not sure I fancy staying in one – apparently you can get quite sea-sick when its windy.
2030 Friday 15th May – Arrived at Low Wray Campsite
Hello everyone. Not a bad ‘virtual’ journey from Norfolk. Not a lot of traffic 😉
Stopped a couple of times for ‘virtual’ refreshments – had the very best sandwich at ‘The Wishful Thinker’ just outside Witts End.The Low Wray campsite is everything I imagined (funny that!). Got pitched by the lake and after a quick supper (corned beef hash) I got the boat on the water and had a quick sail around Low Wray Bay and up to Green Tuft Island. The weather was perfect – a steady Force 4 wind, cloudless sky and a very comfortable 18 degrees Celsius. Looking forward to seeing you all tomorrow.
Fraser
Great to see Blue Jackaroo being looked after. Looks like you’ve been busy! A benefit of some decent weather and a boat you can have on the drive. And something good to come out the Lockdown.Looking at that picture with the transom cut out made me think you could have put some leaded lights in there! Although I guess the rudder mountings might be a small challenge 😉
The damage to the blister at the front is almost certainly because water has got in behind the laminated ‘quadrant’ which joins the blister to the deck – it then soaks up the central timber in the blister and outwards. As you do the repair it is really important to get a good seal around that join, and to minimise any movement between deck and blister.
Keep us posted and fingers crossed we can all get afloat this Summer!
Cheers
NickHi Mike.
A31, Titania, A1 and now Dinky – you must love Fairey restoration!
Failing a local pond you could use to mark the waterline (any of your neighbours got one?)……Uffafox.com has a Duckling page with a line drawing and some details. (And I have now put the draft of 6″ on the AOA ‘dinghies’ page).
As to marking the waterline a dinghy is somewhat simpler than an Atalanta. For the Atalanta I like to level the boat fore-and-aft and athwartships using a water level (clear hose full of water) and then use a laser level set up off the beam and swept from bow to stern. Teamac have a page which neatly summarises the key methods and the great Will Stirling has an article on Classic Boat website.
What do other people do?
Nick
Hi Doug
Great news that A90 is soon to be on the move again (love to see a photo or two!)
The insurance situation is one that you should check carefully as it will depend on your policy, and you need to consider both your own risks and third party.
My understanding is that third party risks arising from towing the boat will normally be covered by your car insurance policy although you should check that. Risks to boat and trailer would normally be covered by your separate boat insurance.
One final thought – Breakdown. You also need to consider whether you want Breakdown cover and if so check documents. Most typical car recovery policies I have found will cover small trailers but will not undertake to recover a 3 tonne trailer. So if you want some sort of recovery you will need to look around. (I have never bothered beyond my standard car cover. The one time I had a breakdown – one of the wheels fell off! – I sorted it myself).
Cheers
NickHi Dom.
Excellent news – it will be great to catch up with you both.
[aoa_restrictCurrent situation is Mike & Sheila, Richard & Julia (I think), Bernard, Joe & Michelle. Oh, and me. Most B&B-ing in Bowness but I am camping and I think Richard too.
Others (including Trevor and Dinah, John of F53) have expressed interest but awaiting confirmations….. Hoping also to attract a few more from Southern Scotland / North England.Cheers
NickWise words in Mike’s article, based on lots of experience with A1, T10 and A31/4 and other people’s Atalantas.
I remain in awe of those with the confidence and skill to lift Atalanta’s with bottlejacks, wedges and barrels. This technique has been used for decades and is therefore well proven. Chris Green is using chain hoists in a scaffold frame for A169 Elle.I am a little risk averse and I adopted a slightly different approach for A124. It did require a little more investment of money and time but causes me a lot less stress.
It is based on the principle of a strong crossbeam (I have used RSJ and more recently 8”x4” construction grade timber) running in triangulated frames and supported by a ‘Hi-Lift’ hack at each end. Hopefully the pictures below give you the idea.Mark 1 of this arrangement (used for A124 and a variety of other boats) involved two jacks, dropping the nose of the trailer on the jockey wheel and positioning a trestle under the stern of the boat before raising the front of the trailer again with the jockey wheel and then rigging the beam/supports/jacks under the boat as close to the front of the keel as possible (might need that bottle jack to create enough room between trailer and keel). The bow is then jacked high enough to withdraw the trailer (the beam must be long enough to allow this.
Mark 2 with Four Jacks replaced the aft trestle with another beam / support / jack arrangement. With a jack at each corner is then simply a matter of raising each end a little at a time, keeping the boat pretty much level as high as your supports will allow.
Note in the last frame the trestles into which the beams are lowered for working under the boat so that you are not depending on the Hi-Lift jacks, reliable though they are.And an action sequence:
For keel removal, have you found the article by Greg Manning in the 2012-13 Bulletin?
Comfort for working aside, it is not necessary to raise the boat enormously high to get them out and it could probably be done with the lowest point of the keel just 2’ off the ground but Mike’s 1m sounds easier.A crude facsimile of the frames used by Greg could be made using a jack. This photo shows a trolley track being used on the keel of A1 which enabled the keel to be dropped until nearly out of the box but not quite, and then rolled aft with the box holding the keel upright. It would be relatively simple to add a frame to hold the keel upright and allow complete removal.
Trolley jack for keel removal
Lots of options!
Be safe, and try to rope in another Atalanta owner to help you.Cheers
NickHi
Well done for buying an Atalanta. They are great boats. And they have proven long lasting when looked after. The one thing they really hate is to be left with water on the decks or in the bilges for a long time.
Here are some key things to look out for – maybe others will add their own advice.
- That rot in the transom…. be aware that the steering lines exert quite a force on the pulleys bolted to the transom. Rot in this area has caused steering failure.
- Delamination, particularly of the decks. The starting signs are to see the joins between the diagonal veneer strips. Light tapping should help reveal.
- Brass Screw failure – de-zincified screws can cause issues, particulary underwater. ‘Halo’ marks through the paint are an indiciation of this. Easily fixed by removing, repairing with epoxy and fitting new screws.
- Condition of the keel raising / clamping steelwork. Difficult to see without removing the tops of the keel boxes – small panels in the saloon and larger panels in the galley/chart table area
- Rust stains weeping from the chainplate area – a sign of things not good underneath. You will see from the recent posting by Bluster however that things can look okay on the surface but need attention underneath.
- Skeg and deadwood – check for any movement. The original fastenings have been known to fail.
Don’t hesitate to ask more questions.
Also, there is a wealth of information available to members of the AOA including technical papers, Annual Bulletins full of practical experience of looking after the boats, and hundreds of original drawings. One of the technical papers is advice on Surveying an Atalanta. You can see indexes of the material available to members here.Where are you /the boat based? It might be than an existing owner would be willing to come and have a look with you.
Hi Ray
Great news that Terrapina has found a new home.
Are you looking for a trailer to keep her on when not in the water, or just for the delivery trip? If the latter I suspect we would be able to sort out a loan trailer for the delivery.
If you are looking for a permanent trailer, asking on the site here is a good start. They are relatively scarce without an Atalanta sitting on them. One or two members have been able to buy new trailers for £2500-3000 – shout if you want details.
Cheers
Nick
